tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6783953662000292123.post1271628827206756421..comments2010-03-12T02:56:58.643-08:00Comments on Logan Atone: Monkey Cooperation and Fairness: Fundamental Principles in LawLogan Atonehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18063737518513380563noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6783953662000292123.post-69386974552730078472010-02-18T20:34:13.320-08:002010-02-18T20:34:13.320-08:00Hey Matt,
I agree that fear of retaliation and a w...Hey Matt,<br /><i>I agree that fear of retaliation and a want for comfort are part of morality, but I am not convinced that they are sufficient and that it "all comes down to maintaining an equilibrium of comfort across agents."</i><br /><br />But sufficient for what? I think this can be a true statement for morality. It's not sufficient to enter the kingdom of God but it is sufficient for moral behavior. I think that God just expects more of us, in fact Jesus gives us the bar when he states we are to be perfect even as our father in heaven is perfect.Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05816549810869986623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6783953662000292123.post-54808646080753959062010-02-14T13:16:01.857-08:002010-02-14T13:16:01.857-08:00I agree that fear of retaliation and a want for co...I agree that fear of retaliation and a want for comfort are part of morality, but I am not convinced that they are sufficient and that it "all comes down to maintaining an equilibrium of comfort across agents." I am suspicious of reductive reasoning because while it may have intuitive appeal it lacks real support.<br /><br />What is God's role in morality? I think it can be found in things like love for one's enemies. As Paul Moser argues:<br /><br />"We humans, it is arguable, cannot create this rare power [of enemy love] ourselves, but God as perfectly loving would seek uncoercively to introduce, proliferate and sustain this power among all humans, at their motivational centers (see 1 Jn 4:7-9, 19). Humans would thus depend on God for this unusual power, even if some humans mistakenly take credit for it themselves. Such mistaken self-credit, I suggest, is the typical root of failing to appreciate salient evidence of God's existence."<br /><br />I have a sneaking suspicion that you won't like that explanation one bit:-P However, I think there is valuable point that Moser makes: there may be features of human interaction that we mistakenly attribute to ourselves when they reflect the work of God. It is this claim that I am arguing when I talk about God's role in morality.Matt Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16499444028818271647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6783953662000292123.post-86656588135197159192010-02-13T23:49:52.759-08:002010-02-13T23:49:52.759-08:00The desire to avoid retaliation,
and the desire in...The desire to avoid retaliation,<br />and the desire in higher order thinkers (like humans) to not live in a crappy place, is sufficient to derive "MORALITY".<br /><br />It all comes down to maintaining an equilibrium of comfort across agents.Logan Creshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07467927148395179057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6783953662000292123.post-6733424838641016332010-02-13T23:42:43.471-08:002010-02-13T23:42:43.471-08:00well then,
what is gods role in morality?
Someth...well then,<br />what is gods role in morality? <br /><br />Something observable please. Saying that God is our ultimate judge is debatable across cultures because there would be no agreement on the identity of that God, and we won't know till we get there, since he refuses to explicitly and unambiguously present himself to us.<br /><br />And I am perfectly willing to concede that this not "proof" that god does not exist. I will go on the record to say that I don't think its possible to prove that God does not exist anymore than it is possible to prove the Elves don't exist in Iceland (they are magic and hide you know), but I will say that it DOES show where "A god is NOT NECESSARY or SUFFICIENT". <br /><br />However certain fundamental principles that are able to be discovered by non-human minds are NECESSARY and SUFFICIENT.Logan Creshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07467927148395179057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6783953662000292123.post-85446874233265399282010-02-13T18:32:39.527-08:002010-02-13T18:32:39.527-08:00sorry, I meant to say "is not really evidence...sorry, I meant to say "is not really evidence for or against God's role in morality."Matt Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16499444028818271647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6783953662000292123.post-73949760894120660032010-02-13T17:00:32.201-08:002010-02-13T17:00:32.201-08:00"God is not necessary" in the sense of n..."God is not necessary" in the sense of needing to require explicitly formulated statements or verbalized propositions, but that doesn't mean that these very features don't bare any relation to God. <br /><br />I'm not saying that this is somehow "proof" that God has something to do with it, just saying that the fact that animals are prone to certain behaviors, behaviors that seem to be foundational to all group dynamics, is not really evidence for or against God. It is only evidence against the idea that moral elements must be explicitly revealed by God.Matt Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16499444028818271647noreply@blogger.com